I think that providing the Ukrainians with the M1 is, while well-intentioned, not the best idea.
I have a better one.
We can give the Ukrainians the very capable and suitable M60 Patton. They are in service worldwide, have seen lots of action, and we have an unknown, probably large, amount (think thousands) of them sitting in mothballs, doing nothing.
Why. I’ll address this point by point, using the bullet statements above as a guide.
First, our NATO allies don’t want the old M-60. They want the latest and greatest, and this is understandable. However, the M-60 had no problems smoking Sov armor in several wars, most notably with the USMC in Gulf One. Yes, the M-60 isn’t cutting-edge, but it doesn’t need to be. It needs to kill Soviet designs, and it has and will. We can probably supply thousands of these tanks in a shortened timeline. Perfect is the enemy of good enough.
I had no idea that the Marines sent M-60s to Gulf 1. But if they worked there, they’d probably work just as well in Ukraine.
A request for my fellow Burger denizens. If you can make this shit go viral somehow, cool. There are a lot of M60s hanging around world wide, and the Ukrainians probably have 750,000 Ivans headed their way pretty soon. They. Need. Tanks. A lot of them.
Insomniac, I'm mostly unplugged from social media. I maintain my Patreon page and Interstellar, and that's it. There was no ROI for me on FB, Twits, etc., and they were a time sink and headache. I got rid of them. So, no. However, I've put out flares and feelers in every avenue I can find. JB has been generous enough to extend my appeal to his broader audience, for which I am grateful. Maybe a sand grain will reach decision makers somewhere. This is the best I can do. Raise awareness that there is an alternative to the M1, and it can be provided at low cost and high effectiveness to the Ukraine.
The M60s have form with the IDF using them to wipe the floor with the Soviet-equipped Syrians and Egyptians in 1973. The Magach-series modded M-60s are still in the IDF inventory. Most variants include a 120mm gun, ERA, electronic FC and active defense systems. A very sound proposition.
Yeah, totally. Also, check out the Textron link at the bottom of my webpost. The M60 can be very effectively upgraded for combat against the latest Soviet designs. However, historical combat action, as you point out, shows that the M60 in its 1980's configuration can handle the T-80 and downwards no problem.
Also, I would be remiss not to point out that Soviet armor designs have a bad tendency to immolate their crews. Give Ukraine something better. When you have a brigade of motorized troops breathing down your neck, and you blew through all your machine gun ammo on a wave of punishment battalion fodder, you need something hard hitting and dead reliable.
The problem with the Sov stuff, and I understand why in the early phase of the war this was the focus of the logistics pipeline, is that the source of legacy parts and munitions is mainly Russia. Also, the Soviet era munitions and vehicles located in the former nations of the Warsaw Pact have been largely exhausted. The former Warsaw Pact nations in NATO have been transitioning to STANAG NATO equipment and ordnance for decades, there is very little current production of Soviet era munitions and parts in friendly nations. Another factor is that those Eastern nations had sourced a large amount of surplus Soviet muntions and equipment to the armies of Iraq and Afghanistan during the past wars of the last two decades. There was very little left by February of 2022, and Ukraine is burning through equipment and munitions on a Second World War scale.
The M-60 is a tried, trusted and effective tank. The M1 engine is a gas turbine engined machine, mechanical problems can be hard to fix out in the field. The other point that is a detriment to the M1, is the fuel consumption, assuming the model of tank to be given to the Ukrainians would be the earlier models, a drawback with these unit is their high fuel consumption, 0.6 miles per gallon, The latest models of the M1 have an improved consumption figure, but it's still not great. The fuel figure is an average because the tank uses different types of fuel.
The M1, as it is deployed in the field would operate in conjunction with the US air force providing air cover for the logistics train of fuel tankers and ammunition to keep up with the armour, the usual operational procedure would be lagering up for the night, no it's not what you think, it means refuelling, rearming, maintenance and crew rest during darkness. The refueling may have to be done during day time, at considerable risk of being exposed while passing shells into the tank and pumping fuel. The ukrainian air force would be unable to protect them because of the small, and dwindling, number of air assets.
The whole concept of using armour of any sort in a conflict has been called into question in this war, with the prolific use of man potable drones against tanks.
Phew, after all that I need to go and get myself well and truly Lagered Up too.
Thank you so much for publishing this, JB. For Pete's sake, they are giving the M60 away free to war museums and creating coral reefs with them. They were (are) excellent tanks, and I guarantee you that Ukraine could put them to good use.
A request for my fellow Burger denizens. If you can make this shit go viral somehow, cool. There are a lot of M60s hanging around world wide, and the Ukrainians probably have 750,000 Ivans headed their way pretty soon. They. Need. Tanks. A lot of them.
Can you do a TikTok?
Insomniac, I'm mostly unplugged from social media. I maintain my Patreon page and Interstellar, and that's it. There was no ROI for me on FB, Twits, etc., and they were a time sink and headache. I got rid of them. So, no. However, I've put out flares and feelers in every avenue I can find. JB has been generous enough to extend my appeal to his broader audience, for which I am grateful. Maybe a sand grain will reach decision makers somewhere. This is the best I can do. Raise awareness that there is an alternative to the M1, and it can be provided at low cost and high effectiveness to the Ukraine.
The M60s have form with the IDF using them to wipe the floor with the Soviet-equipped Syrians and Egyptians in 1973. The Magach-series modded M-60s are still in the IDF inventory. Most variants include a 120mm gun, ERA, electronic FC and active defense systems. A very sound proposition.
Yeah, totally. Also, check out the Textron link at the bottom of my webpost. The M60 can be very effectively upgraded for combat against the latest Soviet designs. However, historical combat action, as you point out, shows that the M60 in its 1980's configuration can handle the T-80 and downwards no problem.
There’s an article in the Guardian on this very thing: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/09/uk-considers-supplying-handful-of-challenger-2-tanks-to-ukraine-war-russia?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I guess the main point is that they want to send Soviet-era hardware
Also, I would be remiss not to point out that Soviet armor designs have a bad tendency to immolate their crews. Give Ukraine something better. When you have a brigade of motorized troops breathing down your neck, and you blew through all your machine gun ammo on a wave of punishment battalion fodder, you need something hard hitting and dead reliable.
The problem with the Sov stuff, and I understand why in the early phase of the war this was the focus of the logistics pipeline, is that the source of legacy parts and munitions is mainly Russia. Also, the Soviet era munitions and vehicles located in the former nations of the Warsaw Pact have been largely exhausted. The former Warsaw Pact nations in NATO have been transitioning to STANAG NATO equipment and ordnance for decades, there is very little current production of Soviet era munitions and parts in friendly nations. Another factor is that those Eastern nations had sourced a large amount of surplus Soviet muntions and equipment to the armies of Iraq and Afghanistan during the past wars of the last two decades. There was very little left by February of 2022, and Ukraine is burning through equipment and munitions on a Second World War scale.
It's all about logistics with tanks during wartime, isn't it? From what Jason says that makes the M-60 a no-brainer over the M1
The M-60 is a tried, trusted and effective tank. The M1 engine is a gas turbine engined machine, mechanical problems can be hard to fix out in the field. The other point that is a detriment to the M1, is the fuel consumption, assuming the model of tank to be given to the Ukrainians would be the earlier models, a drawback with these unit is their high fuel consumption, 0.6 miles per gallon, The latest models of the M1 have an improved consumption figure, but it's still not great. The fuel figure is an average because the tank uses different types of fuel.
The M1, as it is deployed in the field would operate in conjunction with the US air force providing air cover for the logistics train of fuel tankers and ammunition to keep up with the armour, the usual operational procedure would be lagering up for the night, no it's not what you think, it means refuelling, rearming, maintenance and crew rest during darkness. The refueling may have to be done during day time, at considerable risk of being exposed while passing shells into the tank and pumping fuel. The ukrainian air force would be unable to protect them because of the small, and dwindling, number of air assets.
The whole concept of using armour of any sort in a conflict has been called into question in this war, with the prolific use of man potable drones against tanks.
Phew, after all that I need to go and get myself well and truly Lagered Up too.
Thank you so much for publishing this, JB. For Pete's sake, they are giving the M60 away free to war museums and creating coral reefs with them. They were (are) excellent tanks, and I guarantee you that Ukraine could put them to good use.