You’ll be familiar with the Fermi Paradox, which boils down to where are all the aliens. Until yesterday I hadn’t heard of the Dark Forest theory, to explain it.
Long story short, the aliens are out there, but they’re terrified of the other aliens, and practising planetary shut-the-fuck-up protocols.
It’s explained in Liu Cixin's science fiction novel, The Dark Forest, the second book in his tri-solaran series. The trilogy explores the idea that every organism has an innate desire to survive. There’s no way to predict if other life forms possess the capacity or intention to harm you. So, in the absence of certainty, the most secure course of action for any species is to eliminate other life forms before they get a chance to do the same.
In the author’s words:
The universe is a dark forest. Every civilization is an armed hunter stalking through the trees like a ghost, gently pushing aside branches that block the path and trying to tread without sound. Even breathing is done with care. The hunter has to be careful, because everywhere in the forest are stealthy hunters like him. If he finds another life—another hunter, angel, or a demon, a delicate infant to tottering old man, a fairy or demigod—there’s only one thing he can do: open fire and eliminate them.
I like this as a book premise. As reality, however, it would suck like cold vacuum. Funny thing is I read the first book in that series but didn’t really dig it. I wonder if I should go back to it now.
I am a huge fan of Liu Cixin's The Three-Body Problem trilogy have read it twice now. My son (the_weapon_against_society) is working through it in Mandarin (show off). I am really keen to see the Netflix series having watched the Chinese Tencent series earlier this year. But you are spot on great premise, but as an explanation for the Femi Paradox, deflating.
I had a weird time with that book. I enjoyed it as I was reading it. I enjoyed the little bits and pieces of each chapter. But I didn’t enjoy the whole thing. Not sure why. Maybe it was the way he stitched the narrative together, like a sort of story pastiche. I feel like I need to go back and try again.
I find the idea of planets comprising a single civilisation interesting, to say the least. We can't get our shit together here to project ourselves as a single human civilisation into near space, so why would we have a single coordinated approach to communicating with any alien civilisation?
More likely any human encounter with an alien civilisation and would result in asking them to help destroy those arseholes on the next continent.
Sure, but it would not stop a human group from asking for much weppan fanks.
I think you're spot on about having zero concept of what could possibly motivate a completely different sentient being. I've got a pretty good idea of what motivates a lot of humans, though.
Didn't Douglas Adams have this idea too?The Krikkits lived on a planet with no visibility of the rest of space due to being enveloped by a fog of space dust, until one day an alien artefact crashed.
"Upon first witnessing the glory and splendor of the Universe, they casually, whimsically, decided to destroy it, remarking, "It'll have to go.""
[They didn't know that the space dust was a sentient supercomputer that was setting them up, but anyway]
I really enjoyed the whole Three-Body Problem overall. The first book felt slow I guess, but I usually try and get past my initial feelings to give a new book/series a chance. With book 2 & 3 I got into the groove and loved it. Shame it all came to an end :(
That’s the whole point isn’t it? You want to eliminate everyone because you don’t know what skills or properties they have. Starting a fire won’t kill the fire resistant life forms. Game over...for you.
I mean the biggest challenge when it comes to the fermi paradox is it involves aliens. Given we have yet to find an extra-terrestrial species trying to extrapolate anything about their intelligence or reasons is going to be biggly speculative.
Compare with the controversy about whether we should be using radio telescopes to try to send signals to remote stars. Some halfwits were collecting money from people who paid for the privilege of sending their own personal message to whoever on Trappist or wherever it was might be listening. I lean in the STFU direction myself - given we really have NFI what any aliens would be like (because they would be aliens) it's best to be circumspect and not just yell at them and draw attention to ourselves.
I listened to the first one on audiobook but also stopped there as the narrator was probably the most monotone boring slow voice i have ever heard. I had to bump it up to 1.5x or something to get through it. I have a few credits so maybe i should try and push through unless its the same guy (been listening to the Malazan book of the fallen series and need a break in between books - bang for buck with those things! I can feel the weight of the MB size of the files in my phone).
Also counting on if other life is out there that it will just be a relationship of waving out the window at each other (a wave that might take 350 odd years to get there that is). We have more pressing things to worry about apparently - like pathogens that were around long before we were a species locked up in permafrost and now at the point where they are being nudged awake and told to get up out of bed for breakfast. Getting my flamethrower off the shelf just in case - have baptised it the "R.J.Macready"
I tend towards the idea that we may not be at the level of the hunter here. We may be more like an anthill in the forest. Not really worth even paying attention to yet.
I am a huge fan of Liu Cixin's The Three-Body Problem trilogy have read it twice now. My son (the_weapon_against_society) is working through it in Mandarin (show off). I am really keen to see the Netflix series having watched the Chinese Tencent series earlier this year. But you are spot on great premise, but as an explanation for the Femi Paradox, deflating.
I had a weird time with that book. I enjoyed it as I was reading it. I enjoyed the little bits and pieces of each chapter. But I didn’t enjoy the whole thing. Not sure why. Maybe it was the way he stitched the narrative together, like a sort of story pastiche. I feel like I need to go back and try again.
I find the idea of planets comprising a single civilisation interesting, to say the least. We can't get our shit together here to project ourselves as a single human civilisation into near space, so why would we have a single coordinated approach to communicating with any alien civilisation?
More likely any human encounter with an alien civilisation and would result in asking them to help destroy those arseholes on the next continent.
Though once again - alien intelligence could well be unfathomable, could it be just as likely to ask us to sing songs for one of their gravespaces.
"...alien intelligence could well be unfathomable..." That could go both ways. I give you Malcolm Roberts.
Sure, but it would not stop a human group from asking for much weppan fanks.
I think you're spot on about having zero concept of what could possibly motivate a completely different sentient being. I've got a pretty good idea of what motivates a lot of humans, though.
The "Do unto others before they do unto you" philosophy .
I think that theory needs to report itself to the office of Occam's Razor for discipline and reeducation.
Didn't Douglas Adams have this idea too?The Krikkits lived on a planet with no visibility of the rest of space due to being enveloped by a fog of space dust, until one day an alien artefact crashed.
"Upon first witnessing the glory and splendor of the Universe, they casually, whimsically, decided to destroy it, remarking, "It'll have to go.""
[They didn't know that the space dust was a sentient supercomputer that was setting them up, but anyway]
You should go back. I read it twice and it is more amazing in scope than 2001 - A space odyssey
I really enjoyed the whole Three-Body Problem overall. The first book felt slow I guess, but I usually try and get past my initial feelings to give a new book/series a chance. With book 2 & 3 I got into the groove and loved it. Shame it all came to an end :(
What happens when one civilisation decides it's much simpler to just burn down the forest?
It would draw attention to itself by starting the fire. Who knows what is out there and how they would react.
That’s the whole point isn’t it? You want to eliminate everyone because you don’t know what skills or properties they have. Starting a fire won’t kill the fire resistant life forms. Game over...for you.
I mean the biggest challenge when it comes to the fermi paradox is it involves aliens. Given we have yet to find an extra-terrestrial species trying to extrapolate anything about their intelligence or reasons is going to be biggly speculative.
Compare with the controversy about whether we should be using radio telescopes to try to send signals to remote stars. Some halfwits were collecting money from people who paid for the privilege of sending their own personal message to whoever on Trappist or wherever it was might be listening. I lean in the STFU direction myself - given we really have NFI what any aliens would be like (because they would be aliens) it's best to be circumspect and not just yell at them and draw attention to ourselves.
I listened to the first one on audiobook but also stopped there as the narrator was probably the most monotone boring slow voice i have ever heard. I had to bump it up to 1.5x or something to get through it. I have a few credits so maybe i should try and push through unless its the same guy (been listening to the Malazan book of the fallen series and need a break in between books - bang for buck with those things! I can feel the weight of the MB size of the files in my phone).
Also counting on if other life is out there that it will just be a relationship of waving out the window at each other (a wave that might take 350 odd years to get there that is). We have more pressing things to worry about apparently - like pathogens that were around long before we were a species locked up in permafrost and now at the point where they are being nudged awake and told to get up out of bed for breakfast. Getting my flamethrower off the shelf just in case - have baptised it the "R.J.Macready"
I tend towards the idea that we may not be at the level of the hunter here. We may be more like an anthill in the forest. Not really worth even paying attention to yet.
Mostly harmless
An anteater would consider an anthill worth paying attention to.